János Kárpáti

Bartók's Words
-Bartók's Thoughts
András Wilheim, ed.: Beszélgetések Bartókkal. Nyilatkozatok, interjúk 1911-1945.
(Conversations with Bartók. Statements, Interviews 1911-1945).
Budapest, Kijárat Kiadó, 2000, 235 pp.

The custom today is to record interviews on tape, with the interviewees usually getting a chance to approve the final version before it goes into print. It can be argued, therefore, that these interviews are more reliable than the conversations journalists conducted some sixty or eighty years ago. However, today's technology is needed only by mediocre reporters. A receptive interviewer who was knowledgeable on the subject could produce authentic interviews even back then. This is one of the lessons of András Wilhelm's recently published compilation of a wide variety of interviews, ranging from cheap journalism through dedicated attempts at interpretation right down to some auto-analyses of scholarly depth.

Just as wide-ranging as the reporters and journalists interviewing Bartók are the type of interviews included in the book.

A good interview is a genuine dialogue, in which the interviewer, through precisely formulated questions, creates the opportunity for the interviewee to reply in an authentic and articulated way. In addition, the book contains several articles where the dialogue format is dropped and the ideas emerging from the "conversation" are presented as continuous texts, some of an analytical nature. And, finally, there are pieces that have been included in the book mainly for their newsworthiness, being concerned with an event, such as a premičre or a journey, without containing any actual "conversation".

Zeneműkiadó published a similar compilation back in 1957. Károly Kristóf, who had written critical reviews for Ma Este, Pesti Napló and Az Est, provided a selection from his own publications, mostly comprised of brief questions and replies as well as straight news, rather than actual interviews. Nevertheless, we must give credit to Kristóf, as this small volume of some two hundred pieces shows that a Hungarian journalist had faithfully covered Bartók's career between 1924 and 1940, and felt it to be his duty to popularize the composer even among the readers of the tabloid press. He even demonstrated a certain amount of courage when, in his own way, he tried to defend Bartók at the time of the ignoble attacks against him (Petranu, Greguss Award).¹

András Benkő published forty pieces under the title "Romániában megjelent Bartók-interjúk" (Bartók Interviews Published in Romania). Complete with notes and extensive commentary and showing a high level of scholarship, the interviews formed part of the book Bartók-dolgozatok 1981 (Ferenc László ed.: Bartók Essays 1981, Bucharest, Kriterion, 1982). In comparison to Kristóf's selection, the standard of these interviews was generally high; nevertheless, these, too, contained instances of false information and tendentious interpretation. All the same, this book offered convincing evidence that the Transylvanian milieu reciprocated the com-poser's artistic and scholarly attention with special affection and care.

In his comprehensive documentary series, János Demény also published a large number of printed conversations with Bartók, which came out in the three volumes of Zenetudományi Tanulmányok (Bence Szabolcsi and Dénes Bartha eds.: Essays in Musicology; Vol. III. Budapest, Akadémia Kiadó 1955; Vol. VII. Budapest, Akadémia Kiadó 1959; Vol. X. Budapest, Akadémia Kiadó, 1962). He classified the publications according to types: concert programmes, critical reviews, newspaper articles and, quite naturally, interviews. Now we can discover once again how fundamental and literally indispensable Demény's series has been for those studying Bartók's oeuvre.

Had András Wilheim's aim been nothing more than to compile valuable earlier publications, his selection would have still been an important work, in view of the fact that these can now be found only in libraries. Beszélgetések Bartókkal has augmented the inventory of Bartók interviews with nearly fifty items that have never been reprinted since their first publication.

Before commenting on some of the typical interviews presented in the book, a point needs to be made which the editor emphasised in his postscript: due to its intrinsic property, an interview cannot be regarded as an authentic Bartók text. "...Although he is the main character, he is always made dependent on something else, on the interpretation and knowledge, or superficiality and bias, of somebody else."² That adds to the publisher's responsibility, and also warrants careful consideration on the readers' part.

András Wilheim's compilation merits special praise for re-publishing several of Bartók's important statements, for the first time ever making available to a Hungarian-speaking readership interviews and statements which originally appeared in newspapers in Stockholm, Amsterdam, Prague, Paris, Boston and London. For the first time we can read in full the report on Russia published in the musical review Zenei Szemle of Temesvár (Timisţoara). For obvious reasons, Bartók's description of the appalling conditions prevailing in the Soviet Union, given in an interview to Aladár Tóth, had to be edited out of the Bartók Breviárium (Bartók Breviary),³ published first in 1958 and again in 1974. (It is rather unfortunate, however, that Wilheim has failed to mention the censored re-publication of it.) We quote a few excerpts from the report so as to demonstrate how well Bartók perceived the situation, how deeply he felt the problems there:

What strikes the eye first is the complete chaos and confusion that dominates both the concert scene and concert management... The same mayhem reigns in the entire Russian music politics. The concert agencies invite a large number of foreign artists, but they are unable to pay their fees... The passport misery is beyond belief: it is almost impossible for a Russian citizen to obtain a passport... It is quite probable that the entire (concert) audience come from the ranks of the old, impoverished and downtrodden Russian middle class... I came to form a vague idea of how much suffering this old middle class had gone through only when I met the representatives of Russian musicology... It was very moving to see the enthusiasm and the fine results these scholars could produce-and under what financial conditions! The disturbing conditions of the professional people could be felt here in their entire gravity. They live on a miserable salary. No one can talk freely in front of others... The living conditions are appalling...⁴

Frank Whitaker of The Musical Times, who visited the composer in his home in Buda, gave a detailed account of their encounter in the March 1, 1926 issue of the magazine.⁵ Although only a few sentences of the dialogue are actually quoted, Whitaker's words faithfully reflect Bartók's ideas, mainly concerning the collection of folk music and his assessment of contemporary musicians. Another article, hitherto accessible only in English, allows a glimpse into Bartók's compositional technique. The correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor of Boston formulated his questions in a decidedly journalistic way, yet he wrote up the answers authentically and concisely. For example:

There are those who imagine that European art is on the decline. Regarding music, I am not of that sad opinion. I go ahead. Moreover, I proceed independently. Schönberg and his 12-tone music is foreign to me. Schönberg nevertheless both seeks and finds. I take as the basis of composing, folksong. That gets me away from the 19^th century and romanticism, from which escape for many is so difficult. One means of freedom I find in the employment of tone clusters. But I always retain certain centers of tone, which give the effect of key. Suppose my key note to be c#; you cannot say the music is in minor or in major, inasmuch as my chord of C# will contain both the minor and the major third.⁶

And all this in 1927, sixteen years before the Harvard lectures!

The person of the interviewer and interpreter is also very important. So far we have only mentioned competent journalists and discerning critics. However, some of András Wilheim's publications also feature prominent theoreticians of 20^th-century music, such as Michel Dimitri Calvocoressi and Hans Heinz Stuckenschmidt. Calvocoressi, the French critic and writer of Greek origin, is known to have been a close friend of Bartók's. In March 1929 it was he who informed the readers of the London Daily Telegraph of the Hungarian composer's compositional ideas.

It is true that my present tendency is to refrain from entrusting broad, sustained melodies to the piano. I aim, rather, at using short phrases interwoven into a polyphonic texture. As a consequence, cadences become unobtrusive; they are bridged over by contrapuntal devices. Of course, I proceed otherwise when writing for bow instruments which by nature lend themselves so well to sustained melody. But even then you may have noticed that the first movement of my fourth String Quartet is, in texture, very similar to the second movement of my piano sonata.⁷

In 1938, the German critic Stuckenschmidt completed an interview with Bartók for the Prager Tagblatt. Stuckenschmidt, who at the age of 37 had already earned Europe-wide recognition, was evidently less interested in the technical aspects and was more intent on drawing a graphic picture of the Hungarian composer.

Ten years had passed since we last saw each other. His slim and almost boyish figure now seems even more fragile. The hair above the aristocratic face carved out of marble is entirely white now. But his eyes continue to sparkle with the old, majestic fire. There is something Promethean in his gaze, suggesting an unconditional quest for truth and purity.... Bartók is a reserved man: not a single breath of a hostile atmosphere of alien spirits can penetrate his strict yet splendid world. Nevertheless, the barriers are gradually lifted: we talk about common friends, about contemporary German and Czech composers, whose work Bartók holds in high esteem...⁸

Sophie Török's interview, published in Pesti Napló on December 13, 1936, provides important background information bearing on Bartók's ethnomusicological field-work in Turkey. Similarly to Dezső Kosztolányi's frequently referred to interview, here too we can appreciate the interpretation of a dedicated writer: the text is also useful from the viewpoint of scholarship, since Bartók has something to say about the analysis of Turkish folk songs:

It is well known that our old Hungarian tunes characteristically start with the high tones, quite often with the high octave itself. The tune reaches the closing note, the lower octave, only near the end, or right at the end. The Turkish tunes start even higher, possibly at the top tenth, proceeding from there towards the fundamental tone...⁹

Finally, I would like to mention Dénes Bartha's outstanding piece. It was he who published an interview in the German- language Budapest paper, Pester Lloyd, in March 1940, about Bartók's plans in the United States. It should also be noted that numerous American interviews in András Wilheim's book provide a detailed account of Bartók's last five years, relying to some degree on the work of Tibor Tallián (Bartók fogadtatása Amerikában 1940-1945-Bartók's Reception in America, Budapest, Zeneműkiadó, 1988) but also using various re-publications.

Wilheim keeps his notes very short, which was a deliberate decision on his part according to his postscript. " ...I did not check the correctness of references to Bartók's journey and planned concerts (those who are interested should consult the books mentioned above by János Demény and Tibor Tallián, along with Béla Bartók Jr.'s Bartók Béla életének krónikája (The Chronicle of Béla Bartók's Life) Budapest, Zeneműkiadó, 1981)," the editor writes, and it is quite understandable that he chose not to "compete" with András Benkő, who supplemented the forty publications with a comparative source list along with other kinds of information.¹⁰ However, there were a few inaccuracies that would have called for immediate correction, as readers should not be expected to be able to look up sources not readily available.

Although students of Bartók's oeuvre still have their work cut out, a number of comprehensive studies are now in the making. László Somfai's latest book (Béla Bartók: Composition, Concepts and Autograph Sources, Berkeley, University of California Press, 1996. Hungarian version: Bartók Béla kompozíciós módszere, Budapest, Akkord, 2000) clarified matters regarding the research into sources, and the methodology of the complete edition -already far behind schedule-is now taking shape. Thanks to Somfai, again, a new list of works is under preparation, which will replace the Szöllősy list. Work on a critical edition of Bartók's writings has been going on, but progress is slow and therefore András Szöllősy's Bartók összegyűjtött írásai (Bartók's Collected Writings) will continue to be in demand for some time still. András Wilheim's present book is another step towards a complete edition of Bartók's interviews, without claiming to be a definitive work. It is still important in the newest Bartók literature, because in a single book it offers the readers "a collection of non-authentic Bartók texts."¹¹

 

NOTES

1. Letter to the Kisfaludy Society, Népszava January 3, 1936. Answer to the Petranu Attack, Ungarische Jahrbücher (Berlin) February 1936. Both published in English: Béla Bartók Essays. Selected and Edited by Benjamin Suchoff. London, Faber & Faber, 1976, Nos. 31, 32.Back to text
2. Postscript, p. 227.Back to text
3. Levelek, írások, dokumentumok (Letters, Writings, Documents). Compiled by József Újfalussy.Back to text
4. No. 69, pp. 111-113.Back to text
5. No. 143.Back to text
6. No. 58, p. 96.Back to text
7. No. 67, p. 109.Back to text
8. No. 108, p. 187.Back to text
9. No. 100, p. 175.Back to text
10. No. 229.Back to text
11. Postscript, p. 227.lBack to text

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János Kárpáti
is Professor of Musicology and Chief Librarian at the Liszt Ferenc Academy of Music. His books include Kelet zenéje (Music of the Orient) Budapest, 1981, Bartók's Chamber Music (Pendragon Press, Stuyvesant, N.Y., 1994.) and Tánc a mennyei barlang eloýtt. Zene és mítosz a japán rituális hagyományban (Dance in Front of the Heavenly Rock Cave: Music and Myth in the Japanese Ritual Tradition. Kávé, 1998.)